Winding Stair Gardens
In this Episode GardenSMART visits a really cool garden center in Franklin, North Carolina - Winding Stair Gardens. For many of us, our love of gardening started at the local independent garden center. It was where we wandered the aisles with our parents or grandparents, asked questions, discovered new plants, and came home inspired. Then, over time, many of us drifted toward the convenience of the big box stores. But today, something interesting is happening. Gardeners are rediscovering the value of their local, independent garden centers, and those garden centers are changing with the times.
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Amanda’s Gardening Learning Curve
She was a blank canvas gardening wise. In fact, she likes to remember that mindset when people come in here because she understands how clueless one can be when walking into a garden center. Amanda would originally go to big box stores. She thinks what she liked about the environment of a big box store is that if she made a mistake, nobody knew. It was like, I can be clueless on my own. I don't have to interact with someone who's asking questions and then being forced to say I don't know, not realizing that's how you learn. We frequently make mistakes as gardeners, but oftentimes it's really just a matter of education.
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History Of Winding Stair Gardens
Eric would like for Amanda to give us a brief history of Winding Stair, how it started and a little bit about its’ history. Winding Stair was in fact originally, Spring Valley Nursery. It actually began as a nursery where the owners grew plants for their own landscape business. And they were really good at that from the start, then got even better and realized they often had surplus plant material. Thus not only were they selling to other landscapers, but they opened the doors to retail customers as well. At that point they stepped up and decided that the only way to make the business thrive was to full on develop it into a retail nursery.
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The Evolution Of The New Garden Center
The evolution of this space is impressive and a lot of the work has been accomplished recently. There is a lot to see. Please talk us through some of the ways that Winding Stair has been adapted to connect with the community and become a hub for gardening and horticultural education in the region. When Greg and Stacy first purchased the business, they felt it was very important not to change the look and feel instantly. The community is small, people don't like change. There are local newspapers, and at the beginning about every week the rant and rave column would have at least two or three comments like - Why are they doing this? Why are they doing that? So the first year, they pretty much ran it the exact same way, kept the maps and the lay out the same. The customers would check out in a little shack, where it was about physically impossible to have more than one customer in that area. If they had a lot of plants they wouldn't be able to turn around and get out. From a retail standpoint, it wasn't set up well. So they observed what was going on and thought about problem areas, considering things they might improve for the next year.
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The 1st Gardening Class
The first gardening class they held wasn't really intended to be the way forward for the nursery. But, a gentleman who knew a lot about native plants and wildflowers, said he'd be happy to put on a class here. And that's when Amanda realized how much one can learn from a passionate speaker, in person. That was her moment of realization to really look beyond. She likes wildflowers in the woods and people are growing plants native to this area. And they can sell them at this garden center. At that point they had a corner, basically a table, tucked away with native plants.
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The Range Of Classes Held Today
Maybe in the first year, they had three classes, then the next year, maybe five, and now, in 2026 they often do two a day, on Saturdays and they all are generally well attended. Those take place in the events pavilion and they can do many different things in there now. They have a TV screen, with volume and a sound system, as well as a microphone because there is road noise here. They're on a major motorcycle path, so they can have have 100 bikes go past at once and some soft spoken educators struggled with that. Plus, now they hold workshops. They have expanded beyond native plants although many are still in that arena. Medicinal plants have been a successful topic. Amanda pushes speakers to discuss several non natives, but definitely don't do invasive plants and try and do as many native plants as you can.
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Pollinator Playhouse
Not only do they have the pollinator playhouse, which is a great way for kids to learn about pollinators. Every year now and this will be their fifth year they have an event called playing with pollinators, a family fun day. They have multiple members of the community, organizations, even shops and stores that come out. The only rule is, you must have a learning or fun activity related to pollinators or plants for the kids. And now it's, like, this whole area is full of booths, canopy tents, benches, and tables. They’re not just coloring in activities, they can be anything from learning water color painting to using a toilet roll to build your own butterfly. The whole idea isn't just to get a lot of people in here to see what the nursery is about, rather Amanda wants to get children excited about the animals that the plants support. Hopefully, the next question is, how do I get butterflies in my garden.
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Two Gardening Zones Nearby
Amanda, you have quite an immense collection here. And it's a great place for people to come learn about plants. Amanda feels they're incredibly lucky because they're in an incredibly diverse part of the country, even part of the world. Absolutely, they're in a subtropical rain forrest. Yet, they have these conditions where many plants not just grow, but thrive. They have different elevation customers, which is interesting. In fact, from here, somebody could go up 2 zones.
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Why Native Plants
Another reason why native plants are so important is they have adapted to this area. They've evolved here. They get 100 inches of rain here a year. That's not a good environment for every ornamental plant that was possibly grown in another part of the world. They also have steep banks here. Thus, you need things with a good root system, and those plants evolve here too. So they're working with a very extensive but delightful range of plants that work really well in this environment. They're also lucky that there are a lot of native growers here, people who either were born here and very aware of the special nature of this place, or people that have moved here specifically to grow and learn about the plants that work in this mountain setting.
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For many of us, the local garden center is where our love of gardening first took root. Today, those independent nurseries are making a comeback, offering inspiration, expert advice, and a healthy connection to nature.
In this Episode GardenSMART visits a really cool garden center in Franklin, North Carolina - Winding Stair Gardens. For many of us, our love of gardening started at the local independent garden center. It was where we wandered the aisles with our parents or grandparents, asked questions, discovered new plants, and came home inspired. Then, over time, many of us drifted toward the convenience of the big box stores. But today, something interesting is happening. Gardeners are rediscovering the value of their local, independent garden centers, and those garden centers are changing with the times. They're no longer just places to buy plants. They've become destinations for ideas, education, inspiration, and community. Whether you're looking for the perfect plant, expert advice, beautiful pottery, garden decor, or solutions for your landscape, today's independent garden centers offer an experience you simply can't find anywhere else.
Eric tells us about Amanda Chapel. Amanda has been part of the Winding Stair family for years and serves as the nursery's general manager. Originally from England, she's become a strong advocate for native plants. Amanda is passionate about helping gardeners choose plants that flourish in the southern Appalachian climate while supporting pollinators and wildlife. From mountain native perennials to sustainable garden design, her knowledge and enthusiasm make her the perfect guide, as we discover why the local garden center is making a comeback.
Eric meets Amanda - Thanks for joining us, it’s great to be here. And, enjoyable to finally meet you. Amanda returns the compliment - Good to meet you, too. When Eric meets new gardeners, he loves to hear about the wonderful, oftentimes, surreptitious paths they traveled to find themselves in this wonderful industry. Eric would love for Amanda to talk about what brought her to this beautiful garden center. Amanda explains - her mom was in the garden a lot growing up, but Amanda doesn’t think she got her hands in the soil once. She moved to Atlanta 20 some years ago but moving to Atlanta had nothing to do with gardening. She was in a niche construction business. They built pharmaceutical environments. She worked for the company in York, where she grew up. That company decided they wanted to start working in America, she was on the team and it was exciting to come over. She was 23 years old and it was a great opportunity. After that part of her life ended she decided to get involved in web design. At that point she had been coming to the mountains in North Carolina for years to go hiking. And in some ways, that's what set her up for moving to a garden center. She felt like web design and marketing and running her own business was a logical connection.
The Nantahala Forest is a great mountain range and a favorite area for her is called “Chunky Gal.” For awhile she would take a wildflower guidebook with her on explorations. That stage was towards the beginning of bringing Amanda into the gardening world, although still not actually doing anything in it herself. She was a blank canvas gardening wise. In fact, she likes to remember that mindset when people come in here because she understands how clueless one can be when walking into a garden center. Amanda would originally go to big box stores. She thinks what she liked about the environment of a big box store is that if she made a mistake, nobody knew. It was like, I can be clueless on my own. I don't have to interact with someone who's asking questions and then being forced to say I don't know, not realizing that's how you learn. We frequently make mistakes as gardeners, but oftentimes it's really just a matter of education. She's learning - where's the ideal spot for this plant, where is it likely to thrive? Amanda thinks a lot of the difference between a green thumb and a brown thumb is just putting the right plant in the right place, in the right soil. Eric totally agrees.
She remembers going to her first independent garden center in Atlanta. It was beautiful, but she was completely intimidated. She does wish that back then she would have had the courage to say, "I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me?" Thus today she strives to help everyone who comes in Winding Stair. She believes today it's probably one of her greatest advantages when helping customers. Because she now can gauge customers gardening knowledge while realizing I have been there. She now can tell customers a funny story about things she's done wrong, to really let them know, this isn't something that you have to walk in as an expert, and you can learn from mistakes, you can learn from reading and YouTube, from GardenSMART but no one has 100% of all gardening knowledge. And she thinks that's one of the huge advantages of the Independent Garden Center, you’re surrounded by very plant passionate and plant knowledgeable people. So it's a great opportunity for learning. It doesn't matter how long any of us have been gardening, there's so much that we don't understand about plants. We could be given an extra 200 or 300 years on this planet and still every single day, learn something new. Every day.
Before we go take a tour through the garden center Eric would like for Amanda to give us a brief history of Winding Stair, how it started and a little bit about its’ history. Winding Stair was in fact originally, Spring Valley Nursery. It actually began as a nursery where the owners grew plants for their own landscape business. And they were really good at that from the start, then got even better and realized they often had surplus plant material. Thus not only were they selling to other landscapers, but they opened the doors to retail customers as well. At that point they stepped up and decided that the only way to make the business thrive was to full on develop it into a retail nursery. The present owners of the company, Greg and Stacy, bought all of their plants here. Stacy loved coming here, she loved the owner. When the original owners decided to sell Stacy and Greg decided the community shouldn't lose this wonderful business, and they were able to take it over. Stacy immediately thought of Amanda. Initially Amanda was tasked with setting up the point of sale information, she would be the girl behind the scenes. Amanda began by writing many of the plant descriptions. While having knowledgeable people on staff is the ultimate way of making sales and educating customers, plant signs are the next level, they are very important in educating customers about how tall and how wide a plant will get. So Amanda wrote all of those plant descriptions. At that point Amanda was already on her journey learning about plants. This step really cemented and accelerated her learning curve.
Eric would like to take a look at the garden center, he’s excited to see the many, many changes and learn more about the evolution of this garden center into Winding Stair. You've really, really expanded the scope of what this space is. The evolution of this space is impressive and a lot of the work has been accomplished recently. There is a lot to see. Please talk us through some of the ways that Winding Stair has been adapted to connect with the community and become a hub for gardening and horticultural education in the region. When Greg and Stacy first purchased the business, they felt it was very important not to change the look and feel instantly. The community is small, people don't like change. There are local newspapers, and at the beginning about every week the rant and rave column would have at least two or three comments like - Why are they doing this? Why are they doing that? So the first year, they pretty much ran it the exact same way, kept the maps and the lay out the same. The customers would check out in a little shack, where it was about physically impossible to have more than one customer in that area. If they had a lot of plants they wouldn't be able to turn around and get out. From a retail standpoint, it wasn't set up well. So they observed what was going on and thought about problem areas, considering things they might improve for the next year. In 2019 they maintained that old system for awhile, but then created lines for people to wait outside when it was busy. In 2020 they were talking about constructing a new building, then COVID happened. COVID was an interesting time for all independent garden centers. Construction ideas for the new building were certainly a consideration while COVID was changing our society. For example, should they create an outside retail area?
They did start construction that year, the owners were very passionate about creating something, truth to style. They are both big into recycling, reusing. All of the wood on the outside was from trees they’d cut down from their campground. It was just stained with, like, vinegar, that's what provides that dark color. The doors, and so on, were all repurposed. It was an interesting experience, watching it get built. They changed the entire entrance and parking lot. Eventually, they've trained people to drive past the old entrance, then hang a right into the new parking lot. Now they enter through the gift shop, as well as exit through the gift shop. It’s been a big change and provided the ability to help customers understand their purchases more. They were no longer in a shack where if they needed any extra advice, there was someone waiting behind them. Now they have an opportunity where Winding Stair can create an experience. They've added an information station which is really important because they get asked a lot of frequent questions, and staff can answer those one by one, but often, can say, Hey, we have a whole sheet on pollinator plants for shade, for example. They developed and by having additional space it's provided that capacity and ability.
Additionally they restructured the nursery. Meaning they had to restructure the maps. Originally when one came out onto this porch you could see everything from this vantage point. It’s much larger today which required new maps, new signage, a whole different irrigation system. So there was a lot of thought process and it wasn't simple. Something like we’re going to build a building, that just seems, like one dimension, and it had an effect on the entire layout, including the infrastructure and the pathways. So, it was the next big change.
The first gardening class they held wasn't really intended to be the way forward for the nursery. But, a gentleman who knew a lot about native plants and wildflowers, said he'd be happy to put on a class here. And that's when Amanda realized how much one can learn from a passionate speaker, in person. That was her moment of realization to really look beyond. She likes wildflowers in the woods and people are growing plants native to this area. And they can sell them at this garden center. At that point they had a corner, basically a table, tucked away with native plants. But when Amanda got the bug for native plants, after understanding their importance, she was like, we can't have one corner table tucked away. So, now they have a corridor of native plants and even that corridor has increased to over double the size. Plus, the front area is native plants. And that came from one class that inspired her, as well as a lot more learning and reading.
After that first class did so well people were asking for more the classes and because the first did so well they decided to stay in the native plant vein for several more. That’s one element separating Winding Stair from big box stores and what people are looking for right now. Especially during COVID and post COVID people are spending a lot more time in their gardens and asking about sustainability a lot more. Winding Stair educating people about native plants came at a really good time.
After that Amanda started meeting new teachers, new instructors, speakers, who were passionate about their subject. Maybe in the first year, they had three classes, then the next year, maybe five, and now, in 2026 they often do two a day, on Saturdays and they all are generally well attended. Those take place in the events pavilion and they can do many different things in there now. They have a TV screen, with volume and a sound system, as well as a microphone because there is road noise here. They're on a major motorcycle path, so they can have have 100 bikes go past at once and some soft spoken educators struggled with that. Plus, now they hold workshops. They have expanded beyond native plants although many are still in that arena. Medicinal plants have been a successful topic. Amanda pushes speakers to discuss several non natives, but definitely don't do invasive plants and try and do as many native plants as you can. But they've had people making kudzu baskets, aromatherapy classes, yoga. It's really expanded their reach beyond just plants. She would say they have become a place for the community, they're not just selling plants, rather a part of the community, and educating the community on things they're passionate about.
Eric noticed walking through the garden center, there is a pollinator playhouse. It’s lovely, and an amazingly whimsical place. Amanda thinks it's important to connect people to the power and beauty of plants at a very young age and pollinators are important in attracting younger gardeners. Most all of us have that story - you know, your mother was a gardener, your father was a gardener. In some ways, gardening is in our DNA. And oftentimes it only takes a mentor or an experience to awaken that inside of us, to really excite us and to realize just how important plants are to our everyday life. The pollinator playhouse is effective at this.
Not only do they have the pollinator playhouse, which is a great way for kids to learn about pollinators. Every year now and this will be their fifth year they have an event called playing with pollinators, a family fun day. They have multiple members of the community, organizations, even shops and stores that come out. The only rule is, you must have a learning or fun activity related to pollinators or plants for the kids. And now it's, like, this whole area is full of booths, canopy tents, benches, and tables. They’re not just coloring in activities, they can be anything from learning water color painting to using a toilet roll to build your own butterfly. The whole idea isn't just to get a lot of people in here to see what the nursery is about, rather Amanda wants to get children excited about the animals that the plants support. Hopefully, the next question is, how do I get butterflies in my garden. Native plants really are a huge part of the heart and soul of gardening. They're so important in the way that we look at how we plant our gardens or our landscapes. And the native plant collection here is different than the native plant collection that we would see in Atlanta, or that we find when we visit Colorado, et cetera. Eric thinks that one of the really important services that independent garden centers provide is they’re showing you, oftentimes, a snapshot of what is native to that very specific region. And he thinks that this is so important from a standpoint of what allows us to be successful as gardeners. They are the plants that have been here way before we were and they're going to be here well after we're gone. They are very specifically adapted to this microclimate.
Not only do they have the pollinator playhouse, which is a great way for kids to learn about pollinators. Every year now and this will be their fifth year they have an event called playing with pollinators, a family fun day. They have multiple members of the community, organizations, even shops and stores that come out. The only rule is, you must have a learning or fun activity related to pollinators or plants for the kids. And now it's, like, this whole area is full of booths, canopy tents, benches, and tables. They’re not just coloring in activities, they can be anything from learning water color painting to using a toilet roll to build your own butterfly. The whole idea isn't just to get a lot of people in here to see what the nursery is about, rather Amanda wants to get children excited about the animals that the plants support. Hopefully, the next question is, how do I get butterflies in my garden. Native plants really are a huge part of the heart and soul of gardening. They're so important in the way that we look at how we plant our gardens or our landscapes. And the native plant collection here is different than the native plant collection that we would see in Atlanta, or that we find when we visit Colorado, et cetera. Eric thinks that one of the really important services that independent garden centers provide is they’re showing you, oftentimes, a snapshot of what is native to that very specific region. And he thinks that this is so important from a standpoint of what allows us to be successful as gardeners. They are the plants that have been here way before we were and they're going to be here well after we're gone. They are very specifically adapted to this microclimate.
Another reason why native plants are so important is they have adapted to this area. They've evolved here. They get 100 inches of rain here a year. That's not a good environment for every ornamental plant that was possibly grown in another part of the world. They also have steep banks here. Thus, you need things with a good root system, and those plants evolve here too. So they're working with a very extensive but delightful range of plants that work really well in this environment. They're also lucky that there are a lot of native growers here, people who either were born here and very aware of the special nature of this place, or people that have moved here specifically to grow and learn about the plants that work in this mountain setting. They have local growers that they work with, plus in the last two years they’ve started growing their own native plants, from seed. So now they’re not just explaining to customers the importance of native plants, but the importance of plants that actually evolved right here. And that keeps every day an adventure. They're always learning, and then sharing that knowledge with the community. It truly is a wonderful thing.
Eric tells Amanda - I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed speaking with you today, and, of course, we encourage our viewers to come visit Winding Stair Gardens, if you find yourself in Franklin, North Carolina. It's a beautiful and special place. And, importantly indicative of the many independent garden centers across the country.
Thank you very much.
Today, we discovered that independent garden centers are much more than places to buy plants, they are places to learn, be inspired, and reconnect with nature.
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